An Interview with Cyndi Crother:About Fishing, Fishmongers and CATCH! Michael F. Shaughnessy Cyndi Crother, Ph.D. is the author of: “Catch: A Fishmonger’s Guide to Greatness”. Released in January 2004, “Catch!” has been translated into 11 languages and was awarded the Independent Publishers Book of the Year for 2004 in the Business category. She taught Quality Control, Product Quality Assurance, Corporate Training, and Management Presentations in the undergraduate and graduate programs in the Industrial Technology Department at Cal Poly State University in San Luis Obispo for ten years. She left Cal Poly in 2005 and founded Guide to Greatness Consulting. In addition to working on more management books, she is also a popular keynote speaker and corporate consultant. She recently got married on June 4th and will be using her new last name (Cyndi Laurin) in future printings of “Catch!” and subsequent books. 1)You have recently written a book about the guys at Pike Place Fish in Seattle, Washington. What led up to you writing about a bunch of guys working in a fish store? I create goals for myself (both personal and professional) every year on my birthday in November to give my mind some time to think about how to make them happen. In 2001, I suppose my disappointment in the ways of the world was at an all time high (there was a lot going on in addition to 9-11), and I decided that it was time to make a greater difference in the world, on a much larger scale than the one I was currently making in the classroom. I decided a book was a great way to have a captive audience to provoke thinking. Getting people thinking about thinking is one of my life purposes, which had led me to the world of education several years ago. Around the same time, I had attended a Global Leadership Teleconference at Rocketdyne and saw a snippet from the “Fish!” video. I had never heard of Pike Place Fish, and the video had a scroll of companies at the bottom of the screen who were using their book. Because I was always looking for the “latest-greatest” for my students, I decided to check it out. As I researched Pike Place Fish, It wasn’t clear what had made them so successful. I knew they threw fish and had a great time, but I was more interested in what was driving those choices, those behaviors. Within two months, near the end of January 2002, I was on an airplane to Seattle to meet the owner, Johnny Yokoyama, and their business consultant, Jim Bergquist. What led to my writing about them was hearing the language they used when we first met. The language they used at the fish market matched the language I used in my own life regarding goals, teaching, integrity, etc. When I asked if throwing things made them famous, they laughed and said, “That’s just what we do – it’s not who we are.” The language of being personally responsible for the success of the team and of the organization intrigued me enough to learn more. I felt the fish market would be an excellent platform to provoke thinking, and readers would be able to relate to the fishmongers. My hope was that people would begin to see their connectedness to the world they live in. 2) What are some basic business principles that you have gleaned from observing the “Fishmongers”? I actually did a lot more than observe them – I spent a whole year working with them at the fish market. I was also teaching full-time at the University, so I would fly up to Seattle once or twice a month (any time I had off) to work at the Market. I felt that simply observing them would have led to a book about them rather than a book that would share their underlying principles from the inside. It was really a challenge! While working at the Market, one of the most impressive things I experienced and witnessed was the relentless commitment to the success of each and every person. This included all the fishmongers as well as myself and every person that comes into contact with Pike Place Fish. In my experience working with a number of different types of organizations, including education, there is a serious lack of collaboration for the purposes of supporting success in others. I saw collaboration in the form of writing papers (among other things) but for self-promoting purposes. Over the ten years I worked at the University, I was appalled to see (and experience) how peers treated one another, and even more shocked to see how students were often treated. There were very few people in the College of Business who were deeply committed to student success for the sake of student success. Another basic principle that is transferable to any type of organization is having a vision that goes far beyond the boundaries of the organization. At Pike Place Fish, their initial vision when I met them was World Famous, meaning, my thinking, my actions and behaviors support what world famous means to me and to the team. During the year we worked together, the fishmongers decided to expand their vision to Improving the Quality of Life for All People. In working with companies, I have found very few who see the whole organization as part of something bigger than itself. It would greatly behoove the world of education, from pre-school through college, to consider having a vision that goes far beyond the student and the school. The basic way we think and behave within our organizations is driven by the vision. It is so sad to see mission and vision development as a practice to fulfill accreditation or to make the school look a certain way. And poorly written missions or visions that are not practiced tend to create a lot of resentment and frustration from teachers and staff who see the disconnect between vision and reality. 3) You emphasize “cross training” in your book “Catch”. Why do you consider this important? At the fish market, it is important because there tends to be a lot of activity going on for lengthy amounts of time. The guys need to be able to pick up where someone else left off to keep the rhythm going. The more important lesson learned about cross-training at Pike Place Fish is that the responsibility for the job getting done is not handed off with the activity that is handed off. Each is fully responsible for the whole experience. When I work with manufacturing companies, it is almost an inherent part of the structure to pass off responsibility to the next person as the product goes down the line…how familiar does this sound in the education system? Exchange “student” with product, and you have the same basic scenario. Imagine for a moment what the education system would look like if teachers, staff, and administration took responsibility for each student going through our entire education system. It would require some cross-training, but not in the way that we are familiar with where people learn new technical job skills. It would require that the whole system saw itself as a united front to educate our people. The behaviors that would support that type of thinking would require educators to learn about other parts of the system. For example, when I received students at the University from high schools all over the country (and world) and recognized areas of weakness that were not a direct part of my curriculum, I would either change hats and help with improving their skills or direct them to someone that could. That is each person’s responsibility, not just the teachers. Students are not “ours” for a three-month quarter or for one academic year. They are ours for life – the impact goes far beyond the academic year. I feel the sense of responsibility that goes along with being cross-trained (in the traditional sense) is of far greater importance than simply learning new technical skills. 4) “Live What Inspires You” is one of your chapters. How can the average person implement this philosophy? I love this question!!! It’s really very simple, and I hope people get it because I would guesstimate that 90-95% of the population does not live what inspires them. I see many people from all over the world who are going through life, not living life. While there is not a 5-step process to get there, there are some simple techniques to get started. First off, people (young and old) need to really THINK about things that get ‘em going. It’s the proverbial, “why am here – what’s the point?” conversation… Ninety-nine percent of the time, when I coach people on this topic,
what makes them happy usually involves helping or growing or supporting
someone outside of themselves. For example, a CPA that I recently
met with told me that what inspires him is seeing people who are
at peace with their money. Doing taxes and advising people with their
money is simply the vehicle to bringing peace into people’s
lives. For me, one of my intentions is to provoke thinking (that is one of the reasons I loved teaching so much). It doesn’t matter where I am or what I am doing, whether it be on an airplane to a keynote presentation or just visiting with friends or family. I don’t think about it or how to do it because it’s not about me. It is simply who I am. It just comes when the opportunity presents itself or when I generate an opportunity. “Living what inspires me” means that I am living my intention. Anyone can do this, or more appropriately, anyone can be this – whatever their intention is. And I advise people to consider those times in their lives when they felt really inspired (or really happy). What was it about the experience or the moment that generated that feeling? Was the moment about them or about someone else? 5) What basic principles could an average classroom teacher take from your book? We have already covered some principles above, but in my own experience as an average classroom teacher, I would recommend that teachers first consider why they chose this profession. Whether we are aware of it or not, there are huge implications for each and every teacher in our country. Every one of these little first-graders or the older college-aged students is growing into our society…the same society we teachers are part of. Some of the best stories I have ever heard are about how “Mrs. Smith was such an influence in my life because she believed in me and …” I owe much of who I am today because of a high-school English teacher named, Mr. Geri. He provoked my thinking, he encouraged me to see that I was a part of a “Universe”, he encouraged me to look at things differently, and he was funny. Average classrooms teachers can become extraordinary teachers by simply being committed to the success of their students, each of them, even the really tough ones that we all have from time to time. Teachers may never see the results of their commitment, like Mr. Geri, but the impact he made on my life continues twenty years later. 6) You indicate that “Problems are the Doorways to the Future”. It seems that in our current society, we are constantly being confronted, and dare I say it, overwhelmed by problem. Or I am off on this? I agree, it seems whichever way we turn, there are always “things” to contend with. I would say that problems are what we call problems, and that’s a pretty subjective term. What I denote as a problem, someone else may simply brush off. One must know the power of his or her mind. Even yesterday, I was coaching an executive about “change”, and he said, “Change is hard.” I responded, “Only if you think so.” And he said, “No, change is hard. It’s hard to change.” I said, “I hear that you are describing it as hard, but for me, change is exhilarating and scary all at the same time, and sometimes, change is awesome!” He looked at me like I was crazy, and I said, “Change is what you say it is….you say hard, you’ll get hard…you say exciting, you’ll get exciting.” I believe our mind creates the reality based upon how we see it and describe it to ourselves and others. In other words, problems are problems when we call them problems. I know that sounds circular, but we are choosing the language we use to define a problem Becoming more aware of the language I am using to describe my life to me (and others) has made me very sensitive to what I say and what I hear from others (and making others aware of the language they are choosing to use as well). My work these days has led me to believe that language and thinking are the proverbial “silver bullets” that will make ordinary companies extraordinary. 7) How can teachers get kids to go from “ordinary to great “? First and foremost, teachers need to be committed to the success of each and every student who walks through their door (again, even the hard ones). Second, if teachers can become more aware of their language and help kids gain awareness, that’s a biggie! The awareness gained helps kids see that they have a choice in the matter. Third, encourage kids to find their intention…what is the point of it all? This being said, I also believe the learning process is a shared responsibility. Teachers can be committed, be aware, help them find their intention, but the kids have to choose to be great. It is a humbling experience when we do our best as teachers, and some students choose ordinary or choose to not engage at all. Kids today are in a completely different world than any of us (old enough to teach) can even imagine. Rather than blaming them for the ways things are, teachers can instill in kids that at every exchange with another human being, they have a choice to make things better, perpetuate what currently exists, or degrade that interchange. Collectively, those choices made by all of us over time create our culture, and the world we live in. Lastly, I once had an opportunity to present to a large group of ex-cons, ex-drug users, and people who had been convicted of domestic violence. There was one thing I said that changed the entire energy in the room. I told them that it was not their past that made them who they are today, but it was the opportunities that awaited them that made them who they are today. Teachers need to not only feel this commitment to students, but they need to clearly articulate (out loud) to students as well. I used to start every academic quarter by telling my class that I was committed to them being successful. It felt strange at first, but I realized that my actions alone didn’t always speak for themselves. Now, at every keynote, I always tell my audience that long after the presentation, I am committed to them and their organizations’ success. Sometimes people won’t believe me, and they’ll say, “I can really email you afterwards?” And I tell them, “I’m looking forward to it!” It is sad to say that people are often surprised to hear that that is my commitment. 8) You indicate that coaching and mentoring seem to be missing from business. Do you think the same is true of education? Don’t get me started…it has been my own personal experience that coaching and mentoring are all but void in education. I believe coaching and mentoring others are behaviors driven by a commitment to the success of others. There are so few individuals who see the value in coaching and mentoring, if you have access to one, grab him or her, and hang on tight! Kidding aside, people behave exactly appropriately for the system they work in. W. Edwards Deming did an amazing amount of life’s work to illustrate this point. His book, “The New Economics” should be read by every person in education….as well as in government and in the health care system. These, in my humble opinion, are our systems in need of the most help. I believe coaching and mentoring are lacking in education because the culture we have created in the education system is one that promotes self. This is very clearly reflected in our reward structure. If I could see one thing change in my lifetime, it would be an abolishment of the tenure system and merit pay. These two practices alone create a plethora of problems and symptoms of problems that override any chance of sustainable success in the education system. I believe, when push comes to shove, people will perform the work that they are rewarded for (or to avoid punishment), they will fight the system tooth and nail, or they will leave the system altogether. It has been my experience that the teachers most passionate about the learning process become targets. And if you are one of these people, you’re probably shaking your head right now and taking a deep breath. Even writing this, I can feel my heart beating faster. At my University, the reward structure that was on paper was far different than how people were truly rewarded or punished. And there were lots and lots of ways to punish people with rewards. It was the most dysfunctional place I have yet to come across. A culture of coaching and mentoring could not take place, given the reward and incentive structure. The greatest reward in my College was based upon which elite journal one could be published in, no matter if the topic was part of that professor’s curriculum or not, and no matter how good or how abominable the teaching was. That alone fostered behaviors incomprehensible to people outside the academic realm. Honestly, think for a moment what your school or university might look like if you knew everyone around you was committed to your success. The team (as life is at Pike Place Fish) could not fail! If everyone is committed to each other, no one would let the school or university…or student…fail. 9) What basic principles from “CATCH!“ do you think could be applied to education? What principles do you personally implement? Top ten list…and these are principles I implemented while I was teaching:
10) The guys who work at Pike Place Fish seem to have made a conscious decision to have fun and make money and please customers at the same time. Why are there so few businesses that seem to employ or embrace this philosophy? Well, you hit the nail on the head with conscious decision. I ask the following question at my keynotes all over the country (and beyond), “Why are there so many ordinary organizations?” In my heart of hearts, I believe people are good and want to do good. I also believe that people have become excellent human-doers, not so good in the human-being realm. When we act collectively, as in a business or organization, we are all focused on doing business without examining the being part of business. I’m not talking about touchy-feely, singing Kum-Ba-Ya by the campfire – I am referring to collectively living the vision of the organization. At Pike Place Fish, “having fun, making money, and pleasing
customers” is what you see them doing; however it is the natural
outcome of living their vision of improving the quality of life for
everyone. When I work with super, high-performing organizations,
the vision is immersed and integrating into every part of their being.
You can hear it from the leadership, you can see it in their products
and services, and you really feel it when you speak to employees. |
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